🏠 Buying or Selling in 2025? Here’s What You Need to Know

Off the Record is back for Season 2, and we’re kicking things off with everything you need to know about real estate in 2025! Joe and Makayla discuss the latest trends, interest rates, inventory challenges, and expert strategies to help you navigate the market. If you’re buying or selling this year, don’t make a move without these insights!

Episode Highlights:
✅ Portland market trends: What’s changing in 2025?
✅ Why inventory is still tight and how it affects buyers and sellers
✅ The national real estate landscape: Where home prices are headed
✅ Buyer tips: How to compete in a fast-moving market
✅ Seller strategies: Pricing it right and preparing for success
✅ Interest rates: What to expect and how to make them work for you

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For more information about buying or selling in the Portland Metro real estate market, please visit www.LivPortland.com or contact us directly.

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Transcript

00;00;08;21 - 00;00;25;10

Joe Reitzug

Welcome to Off the Record talking real estate with Joe and McKayla. If you're interested in the Portland, Oregon real estate market and want the unvarnished inside scoop, you've come to the right place. Thanks for giving us a listen. Okay, welcome to the show, everyone. It's good to be back. Hi, Makayla.

00;00;25;11 - 00;00;26;15

Makayla Mast

Hi. How are you?

00;00;26;18 - 00;00;27;11

Joe Reitzug

I'm great. How are you?

00;00;27;11 - 00;00;29;26

Makayla Mast

I'm good. We haven't done this in a while.

00;00;29;27 - 00;00;34;16

Joe Reitzug

I know it feels like forever. We took a little hiatus over the break, and, you know, we.

00;00;34;16 - 00;00;37;15

Makayla Mast

Are back to swing in on January 3rd or fourth.

00;00;37;16 - 00;00;38;07

Joe Reitzug

She's like.

00;00;38;10 - 00;00;40;18

Makayla Mast

She's working hard ever since.

00;00;40;19 - 00;01;04;11

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Fast out of the blocks right now, which is good. Which is very good. So. And that's what we want to talk about today is get everyone up to speed on what 2025 is looking like and what you can expect where we're at, and maybe give you some personal insights into what we're doing right now with some of our clients, some of our folks that are buying a home, selling a home, and different investors.

00;01;04;11 - 00;01;07;12

Joe Reitzug

We're working with. So yeah, it's going to be a good show. What's today's show going.

00;01;07;12 - 00;01;25;21

Makayla Mast

To look like? Yeah, I think I want to start with chatting about our personal experience in the market, what we've been seeing over the last couple of weeks. And then I want to talk about what's happening nationally, bring it locally just to our hyperlocal Portland market. And then, we'll end with how it can help you decide if this year will be a good time for you to buy or sell.

00;01;25;27 - 00;01;42;09

Joe Reitzug

It's funny, we have so many people reaching out right now saying, hey, we're ready. You know, it's after the holidays. We really want to get going on either buying a home or figuring out what we're doing as far as selling a home. What are you seeing with the people that you're working with who are on the buy side?

00;01;42;09 - 00;02;02;22

Makayla Mast

Feels like it's a little all over the place, but our buyers that are ready. So and by ready we mean like pre-approved, who are actually, you know, actually searching feels like there's a lack of inventory. Yeah. And homes that do come on the market that match their needs seem to go really fast. So it's kind of like this waiting period.

00;02;02;22 - 00;02;30;12

Makayla Mast

And then you have to go all in and and know right away if that's the home or not for you, which, you know, there's pros and cons with that. But being ready is definitely an important factor of that. And then are we are working with some investor clients who, you know, they look in the 400 and under range and those homes get ten offers in two days, is a dogfight every week when those ones come on the market and I don't know if that's always been the case, you'll have to speak to that more.

00;02;30;12 - 00;02;34;00

Makayla Mast

But to me, it seems like even more of a rat race than ever to get those ones.

00;02;34;01 - 00;02;54;29

Joe Reitzug

Yeah, yeah, I feel sorry for the investors. Right now because the, the, the lack of inventory that we have is really causing, you know, when something does come up, bang. I mean, it is just swarmed by people that, you know, in the past we had a lot of people, you know, people that flip homes and, and buy to hold or whatever the case may be.

00;02;55;02 - 00;03;22;01

Joe Reitzug

They had plenty to look at, right. And there was all sorts of good inventory. And even, you know, right after Covid when prices were going so nuts, we still had a lot of homes to look at until we didn't. Right. And now it's you know, I think they say that our inventory is 3.2, 3.4, something like that. And just so you say, you know, remember, six months is considered a healthy marketplace for inventory.

00;03;22;04 - 00;03;42;16

Joe Reitzug

And the definition of inventory is if no homes hit the market right now, no more new homes hit the market. How long would it take at the current rate to sell out the inventory? We have? And right now that'd be about 90 days, a little over 90 days, which is not very much. It's also a function of there being less sales.

00;03;42;20 - 00;04;00;28

Joe Reitzug

Right. So it's an interesting marketplace. Real estate is one of those things though, that it's all a matter of perspective. Right. So a lot of people I get the feeling that the public, in a lot of ways looks at our real estate market right now and it's like, oh, it's awful. It's this and that. It's just different. Right?

00;04;01;00 - 00;04;16;29

Joe Reitzug

And you can get a great home, a home that you've been, you know, wanting to get into forever. You can still do that. And if you want to sell your home and get the top, top dollar, more than anyone's ever gotten in your neighborhood, that's still happening. It's just different.

00;04;17;04 - 00;04;23;23

Makayla Mast

Yeah. It's different. I think there's a lot of opportunity, and I think that's what people are missing. Yeah.

00;04;23;25 - 00;04;46;24

Joe Reitzug

But I think from all the indications here in January, it feels like a lot of people are starting to come around to the fact that, okay, it's not just interest rates, it's all these other factors and what we want to do right now. Lenders are getting pretty creative, even though rates still hover around seven, it's worth a conversation with your trusted mortgage professional to see you know what your situation is like.

00;04;46;24 - 00;04;48;08

Joe Reitzug

If you do have interest in buying.

00;04;48;11 - 00;04;53;00

Makayla Mast

Right, so you have a high credit score, a big down payment, it's likely less than seven.

00;04;53;07 - 00;05;08;15

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. So we talked about buyers. We talked about investors a home sellers. We just put one on the market last week that between Friday morning and Sunday night had 28 showings. That was the final total 28 showings.

00;05;08;15 - 00;05;10;21

Makayla Mast

So that was 24. That's not 20.

00;05;10;21 - 00;05;26;01

Joe Reitzug

Eight. Yeah. So and we did get multiple full price offers on that. But that just proves that if you have a desired property and it's dialed in for what people are looking for and priced right, it's going to happen in this marketplace.

00;05;26;04 - 00;05;38;01

Makayla Mast

Our seller had a unique opportunity on that one to take a long time to prep the home. And also, he was really interested in pricing it, right. So it wouldn't sell. Like I don't know if it went right.

00;05;38;01 - 00;05;40;08

Joe Reitzug

No. Yeah. First part of the season.

00;05;40;11 - 00;05;40;16

Makayla Mast

That's.

00;05;40;16 - 00;06;14;20

Joe Reitzug

Going to happen. Makayla. It's going to happen. Yeah. And we have other, clients right now that are, you know, they've approached us and said, hey, we we've got about 30 or 45 days till we want to put our home on the market. What should we be doing? Highly, highly recommend that, folks. If you're thinking about selling, even if you're not sure if you want to sell, go ahead and get started with having the conversation with your real estate professional to find out you know what your home would look like in the current marketplace, what you can do and what you can do to improve its standing.

00;06;14;22 - 00;06;37;12

Joe Reitzug

We have one that we're getting ready to put on the market early February that they've had the floors redone, they've had multiple rooms in the house painted. They're going to have landscaping done. They're getting staging set up. They're doing all the things necessary. And it's a great house, but they are maximizing every opportunity they have to get the highest possible dollar amount.

00;06;37;12 - 00;06;38;12

Makayla Mast

So I agree.

00;06;38;15 - 00;06;53;23

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. It's just it's a good strategy to have. We're starting to see more of that. Do you think people are listening to our podcast. Are they are they getting on the pod and saying, yeah, we do have to do some prep. We do have to figure this out.

00;06;53;25 - 00;07;02;01

Makayla Mast

I hope so not be so funny. They didn't say anything there just they're like, yeah, we've heard this already.

00;07;02;07 - 00;07;03;04

Joe Reitzug

Quite harping on us.

00;07;03;04 - 00;07;09;10

Makayla Mast

About not new information. Yeah. But yeah I do think the prep is making all the difference right now.

00;07;09;12 - 00;07;25;23

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. So we have a lot of homes in the one that we're marketing right now, and the ones that are doing really well have done their homework, prep the homes, but also pricing. We have to talk about pricing.

00;07;25;23 - 00;07;38;13

Makayla Mast

When I tell people pricing is important, right now, they take that as, oh, I have to under list my home and I'm not going to get as much money as I would another season. And I really don't think that's true.

00;07;38;15 - 00;07;39;06

Joe Reitzug

No.

00;07;39;09 - 00;07;39;27

Makayla Mast

But it's really.

00;07;39;27 - 00;08;15;23

Joe Reitzug

Really priced under price. And if you're over what the current market is for your type of home and property, it's going to be a long road to hoe, even if you're a top 5% home. You know, we talk about, you know, if you bunch all the similar homes together, there's ones that are better than the others, right? You know, they're nicer, they've been more well, there's no deferred maintenance that, you know, the styling, the floor plan, you know, the landscaping, outdoor living, all that stuff is there.

00;08;15;26 - 00;08;42;01

Joe Reitzug

But even the top 5% ones, if you're too far above the market price or over the market value at all, it's tough. It is really tough because buyers are not going to overpay right now, right? They I think they feel like they're getting stabbed a little bit with interest rates and they're just not going to overpay. And a lot of them will just say, yeah, love the house, but you're 20,030 thousand $100,000 over.

00;08;42;02 - 00;09;10;15

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Right. And that that's a real problem. So getting priced at the right at the cutting edge or even just a little bit below because you know, like in the case of the one that we just had 28 showings on, we were probably we were probably right at market value. But we ended up getting multiple offers and it ended up selling for $25,000 over what we listen to that, which was great.

00;09;10;18 - 00;09;19;26

Joe Reitzug

Sellers were happy, buyers felt like, you know, they got a good value, even though they paid a little bit more than the list price. And it sold in the first weekend. Right.

00;09;19;29 - 00;09;30;10

Makayla Mast

So yeah, I think market value is something that's hard to explain to people. I think a lot of times sellers will get a little offended if we know when we give them, we just.

00;09;30;10 - 00;09;30;26

Joe Reitzug

Try.

00;09;30;26 - 00;09;38;20

Makayla Mast

It at this price. It's like, well, if you want my opinion, it's probably not going to go as well as you're hoping at that price. And that's always.

00;09;38;22 - 00;10;00;20

Joe Reitzug

And what happens when you try it at that price, like let's say it's 525 is the value and they want to go at 550. That's a problem because if it doesn't sell and it's on the market for a while, people are going to see that and you're not going to get your asking price. You're going to get below asking price on the price that you like.

00;10;00;24 - 00;10;27;02

Joe Reitzug

If it's five, if the market value is 525, they listed at 550, it doesn't sell. We reduce it to 525. But it's been on the market for 30 days. You're probably not going to get a full price offer. And you're looking at five, 15, five, ten, something like that. Right. So instead of pricing at the 525 and getting that value right away, you tried out the higher price and now you're accepting five, ten, five, 15, something like that.

00;10;27;02 - 00;10;34;04

Makayla Mast

Yeah. Market time is not your friend. We'll just say that now. Should we tell them what's going on nationally.

00;10;34;06 - 00;10;59;12

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Let's look at the big picture. So inventory even though we're getting more homes on the market here in Portland, we're at 13% year over year. So 13% more homes are on the market now than this time last year. Does it feel like that? No, no it doesn't. I think we started at such a small number before 13% increases.

00;10;59;12 - 00;11;00;08

Joe Reitzug

Like me.

00;11;00;09 - 00;11;03;18

Makayla Mast

It still doesn't feel like much, but it's helpful to me.

00;11;03;24 - 00;11;33;13

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Around the United States, Atlanta has a 3,038% increase. Tucson, Arizona 42%. LA has 26%. In Miami has 45% increase. So a lot more homes hitting the market around the country. Here in Portland, not so much. Right? Right. A little bit different marketplace. When we talk about list prices and everyone wants to know our price is going down, our price is going down.

00;11;33;15 - 00;11;58;00

Joe Reitzug

And you're going to hear if you talk to ten people, you're probably going to hear ten different things. Right? But the facts are the facts. And here in Portland, we're flat. We're actually 0.5% below the average list or the median list price from this time last year. So prices essentially are the same. If you look around the rest of the United States, Seattle had a 3% drop in in list price.

00;11;58;00 - 00;12;07;04

Joe Reitzug

So what homes are going on the market for Phoenix 5%, Austin 8%, Miami and San Francisco are down 10%.

00;12;07;07 - 00;12;10;13

Makayla Mast

That's crazy. Especially because Miami is still such a hot market.

00;12;10;15 - 00;12;28;04

Joe Reitzug

It's a hot market. But yeah, it's cooling down as far as people are coming to realize, oh wait, I can't price it at that. And it's the same thing we talked talked about, you know, two minutes ago here with pricing. If you don't price competitively, it doesn't matter how wonderful your home is. It's not going to sell. Right.

00;12;28;07 - 00;12;50;24

Joe Reitzug

So that's you know, that's the big picture on, you know, the national scene. It's still a seller's market in most places. Even though inventory is starting to come up and prices are still starting to come down. Like we said, it's all relative, right? All right. If you're heads barely above the water and you sink it down a little bit, can still see, but you're not.

00;12;50;27 - 00;12;55;10

Joe Reitzug

That's a bad analogy. That's a horrible analogy. What's it better now.

00;12;55;12 - 00;12;55;29

Makayla Mast

That I know.

00;12;56;00 - 00;13;00;15

Joe Reitzug

I was going somewhere with that and it didn't quite work out?

00;13;00;17 - 00;13;12;18

Makayla Mast

I don't know what the analogy is, but the thing that I'm thinking of is, if you're a buyer and you're interested in a home that's been on the market for 100 days, you have more negotiating power than that seller. Yeah.

00;13;12;20 - 00;13;13;06

Joe Reitzug

Yeah, that's.

00;13;13;06 - 00;13;20;05

Makayla Mast

True. But if you're a seller with a really hot home that is well priced and you have four offers and right leverage.

00;13;20;09 - 00;13;27;21

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Is yours. Tell me about interest rates. What do you think? What are you seeing in case no one has been looking at this where they have right now.

00;13;27;24 - 00;13;47;26

Makayla Mast

Well they're right around 7% like we touched on a minute ago. People are hopeful that it it'll come down a little bit, but not hopeful that I'll get anywhere below seven or below six. Or probably anywhere in the low sixes. Having a good credit score is more important than ever.

00;13;47;29 - 00;13;51;02

Joe Reitzug

700 and above is bueno.

00;13;51;05 - 00;14;08;27

Makayla Mast

And, chatting with your, mortgage broker on how to get creative is also really important. Now's a good still a good time to be asking for some seller concessions. That can help you with your closing costs and or buy down the interest rate, which has the biggest impact on your monthly payment?

00;14;08;27 - 00;14;33;21

Joe Reitzug

Yeah, I was going to say buying down the interest rate is still one of the one of, if not the most powerful thing you can do. Right. And most sellers right now, if it's spent any amount of time on the market, they're going to give concessions, right? They're going to give closing cost. And even if it's, you know, not even if it's a hot home, you can build it in there so that you can get money, towards your, your buy down.

00;14;33;21 - 00;14;45;10

Joe Reitzug

Right. Because the difference between a seven and a six and a half or a six and three quarters and 6.6 and a quarter is huge, right? It makes such a difference.

00;14;45;11 - 00;14;46;29

Makayla Mast

Like hundreds of dollars a month.

00;14;47;01 - 00;15;05;02

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. So interest rates are what they are. And, you know, this is just a new reality and where we're going to be for a while. I'm not going to pull out the old, you know, back in the 1990s and early 2000, that was different. It was different.

00;15;05;09 - 00;15;06;01

Makayla Mast

But same.

00;15;06;01 - 00;15;17;11

Joe Reitzug

Interest rates but home prices. I remember selling the my first home that was over 200,000. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

00;15;17;13 - 00;15;19;00

Makayla Mast

That's insane.

00;15;19;02 - 00;15;23;20

Joe Reitzug

My first listing was $98,000. Wow. It was a nice house.

00;15;23;22 - 00;15;24;12

Makayla Mast

That's crazy.

00;15;24;12 - 00;15;34;28

Joe Reitzug

Like in North Portland. Yeah. So them are the old days. These are the days that we have now. So that's where we're at.

00;15;35;01 - 00;15;58;26

Joe Reitzug

Okay, let's, let's dive into some more stats for the area and just kind of get a feel for what's going on. We gave you some general numbers before. But we want to kind of just throw out there and we're going to go by County right now. Is that okay? Yeah. So, when we're looking at days on the market, days on market in Washington County is 74 days right now, right?

00;15;58;28 - 00;16;08;09

Joe Reitzug

Multnomah County is 87, and then Clackamas County is 76. All of those are the highest numbers we've seen, and.

00;16;08;12 - 00;16;10;18

Makayla Mast

It's the highest numbers I've seen in my career.

00;16;10;21 - 00;16;39;03

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. Long time, long, long time. So let's look at median list price. So what are homes. What's if you look at all the homes that are being put on the market. If you go right into the middle what is that number. Median list price in Washington County is now or in December was 622 450. Multnomah was 487 and Clackamas was 712.

00;16;39;05 - 00;17;00;28

Joe Reitzug

So in Washington County, that's a decrease of 2.7%, right. So homes are 2.7% cheaper that are hitting the market right now, 5.3%. And Multnomah County and Clackamas is up 1.7%. The luxury market folks is still hot.

00;17;01;01 - 00;17;01;23

Makayla Mast

Doing just fine.

00;17;01;29 - 00;17;11;03

Joe Reitzug

Doing just fine, thank you very much. And we need to do a, we need to do a podcast on luxury purchase and luxury sale. It's right.

00;17;11;08 - 00;17;12;29

Makayla Mast

Yeah, it's a different ballgame right now.

00;17;13;01 - 00;17;17;10

Joe Reitzug

It is a different ballgame. So we're looking at that. What else do we want to look at? My killer.

00;17;17;16 - 00;17;27;23

Makayla Mast

I like this stat. Comparing December 23rd to December 24th, we're up 15.3% in closed sales. That was made me feel a little more hopeful.

00;17;27;23 - 00;17;33;19

Joe Reitzug

So it is what it is. All these stats are interesting. You know, if we look at the Seattle marketplace.

00;17;33;22 - 00;18;02;09

Makayla Mast

Yeah, like Seattle's average days on market right now is 69.9. So very similar. We always compare the Portland metro market to other nearby markets. To give some context, but usually what happens in Seattle kind of has that trickle down effect. We'll see several months later happening in Portland. And then we also look at Boise to Boise is a really interesting one because a lot of people are moving there right now, specifically from Portland.

00;18;02;09 - 00;18;16;04

Makayla Mast

So and it used to be one that we compared down to, because it's smaller than Portland. But now it's, it's things are different because there's a lot of movement there. In Boise, the average days on market is 68. So very similar as well.

00;18;16;07 - 00;18;20;18

Joe Reitzug

60 dropped. Oh yeah. They drop down to 60.

00;18;20;21 - 00;18;21;19

Makayla Mast

Dang. Good for them.

00;18;21;22 - 00;18;53;10

Joe Reitzug

Good for them I know I know. And median listing price year over year pretty much flat at almost the exact same as here in Portland 0.7 percent down. So five 79th December of 23 December 24th was 574 950. So a little bit of a flattening market for them as well. If you're interested in finding out any statistical information or trends or anything for your neighborhood, your area, Portland in general, we're more than happy to help.

00;18;53;12 - 00;19;26;20

Joe Reitzug

We provide a lot of this information to our clients when we sit down with them and talk about where the market's at, what their neighborhoods are doing, all those type of things, and it can be very helpful to see the trends and understand, especially around pricing and days on market. And, you know what the ebb and flow and the momentum of the marketplace is because, you know, you certainly don't want to get aggressive with pricing in this market, but you really don't want to get aggressive if your neighborhood pricing is significantly less than some of the things we just talked about.

00;19;26;27 - 00;19;34;02

Makayla Mast

Yeah, absolutely. I also think that for sellers right now, updated market analysis analyzes.

00;19;34;05 - 00;19;38;18

Joe Reitzug

Is it analysis or analysis? I'm going to go with analysis.

00;19;38;20 - 00;20;06;25

Makayla Mast

You think that's plural I don't know. We'll fact check that and then show notes. Sure. Maybe I think their market CMA is, as we call them, are more important now than ever because, you know, things are changing as we've talked about. But I also think that the online algorithms still don't do a good job at, giving you an idea.

00;20;06;27 - 00;20;27;04

Makayla Mast

And I think it is important to have a broker come look at your home, drive around your neighborhood, take some time to hear about your updates to really make a good analysis, because I think it's so important to be precise right now. And no to like if if we do come over and take some time to, you know, walk through your house, that doesn't mean that you have to sell.

00;20;27;06 - 00;20;34;13

Makayla Mast

We were just happy to provide information for you and help you decide if it's a good time for you to sell, because it might not be. And that's okay.

00;20;34;15 - 00;20;59;00

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. I think the algorithms is also a you know, I'd like to add to that, that what a computer looks at is size square footage trends, different, statistical things. But the amenities, you know, how well-appointed a home is, the design, the floor plan, all of those factor into what buyers find value in and what eventually your home's value is.

00;20;59;00 - 00;21;23;18

Joe Reitzug

The Zillow, Redfin, Trulia. All of them don't have that anymore. Or never did. Actually. They don't have the ability to look at that and say, you know, that's an extra 10,000 here or an extra 5000 there. So it is absolutely worth it. And the other thing is, you know, we have a lot of clients we talked about who are talking, you know, March, April, on their sale dates.

00;21;23;20 - 00;21;47;10

Joe Reitzug

And we do, market analysis, CMAs for them right out of the shoots to say, hey, if you put it on right now, this is probably what you're looking like looking at, but we also go back to that when we get ready to put it on the market. So probably about a week before or even a couple of days before we go active on the marketplace, we'll update that and say, hey, you know, good news.

00;21;47;12 - 00;22;15;21

Joe Reitzug

The market's changed a little bit here in your area, your neighborhood. And we think instead of, you know, 650 you might think about 675 here. Right. So timing moves quickly in our marketplace much faster than it used to. In the variables. There's just more variables now. So it's, it's a different, it's a different marketplace. And you just have to be always updating and getting more information and more data to make good decisions on that.

00;22;15;21 - 00;22;34;28

Makayla Mast

I couldn't agree more. And then if you're a buyer, as we touched on earlier, it's important to be ready. You know, if if you see a home that you fall in love with pop up on Zillow, chances are you might be too late. If you're not already pre-approved, we can connect you with our trusted mortgage brokers who can help you start that process again.

00;22;34;28 - 00;22;44;28

Makayla Mast

They aren't going to do, hard inquiries on your credit scores right away. They'll always, you know, wait on that so you can, just get an idea if it's a good time for you or not.

00;22;44;29 - 00;23;12;09

Joe Reitzug

Good show making a lot of good information. You know, if you're thinking about buying, you're thinking about selling, reach out. Go to LivPortland.com LivPortland.com. And, we've got a ton of resources there. You can always see, our old podcast. We've done some really good shows on, what to do if you're a first time homebuyer, if you're moving up, you want to sell a home, buy a home, but don't want to make 16 different moves and all that sort of stuff.

00;23;12;11 - 00;23;22;14

Joe Reitzug

So check out the library. Thank you to, to everyone that supported the podcast. We really appreciate it. And, we look forward to a very fun 2025. It's going to be a good year.

00;23;22;15 - 00;23;32;11

Makayla Mast

Yes, I agree, I'm excited to see how this compares to our, spring market update that we'll have coming up sooner than later, for sure. And I think we're calling the season to.

00;23;32;14 - 00;23;33;13

Joe Reitzug

Oh, is it season two?

00;23;33;14 - 00;23;34;16

Makayla Mast

Season two.

00;23;34;19 - 00;23;37;19

Joe Reitzug

We're dropping season two, folks.

00;23;37;21 - 00;23;38;20

Makayla Mast

Yeah. And this is it.

00;23;38;24 - 00;23;41;07

Joe Reitzug

Yeah. And this is it.

00;23;41;09 - 00;23;42;11

Makayla Mast

Thank you for listening.

00;23;42;11 - 00;23;44;06

Joe Reitzug

Thanks, everyone. Have a good day.

00;23;44;08 - 00;26;09;07

Makayla Mast

Thanks for joining us today. If you're interested in finding out more about Joe, myself or the LivPortland team, you can go to LivPortland.com. Thanks for giving us a listen and see you next time on the Off the Record podcast.